Maxim M250 not going into max mode
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pancura
Learner Burner


Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 34
Location: halifax

PostPosted:Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:14 pm    Post subject Reply with quoteFind all posts by pancura

I have had the stainless auger now all summer. Wont know how well it works until I crank it this winter.

I am still running domestic hot water. Seems the system flashes all three bars when temp hits 190F. I cut back the high temp to 175 and lowered the minimum settings to half bars with air slightly less.

I still seem to get BB error. This worries me as this appears to me to be what would cause back burn. I have the water suppression kit installed but don't know if its kicked in when it goes into BB mode. I am not on site and my seperintendant is usually the one relaying the message so I dont see first hand what the system is doing. By the time I arrive its back to normal operation.

I think I will post a new thread on harnessing the power in the upper auger?
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jdeere5220
Serious Burner
Serious Burner


Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 730
Location: Michigan

PostPosted:Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:24 pm    Post subject Reply with quoteFind all posts by jdeere5220

Sounds like it can't run SLOW ENOUGH to just do your hot water. I'm not sure why you would want to do that really, isn't really inefficient to run the unit just for heating your DHW? I think the system works best if it's kicking out some pretty good BTUs on a pretty regular basis.
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Maxim M250 outdoor corn/pellet burner
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I support Global Warming
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pancura
Learner Burner


Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 34
Location: halifax

PostPosted:Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:22 am    Post subject Reply with quoteFind all posts by pancura

I would have thought the unit would just go out if the demand is not high enough and I would have expected to see more propane usage to re-ignite the fire when a demand is present. Now I cut back my low rates but I still may have my medium rate too high. This may cause too much product to be feed into the burn chamber thus causing the BB warning. What do you think? This still does not make sense really. The only reason the system would be in medium mode if there is heat demand, so it should cut out 10F lower than the set point. Do we think its possible to add enough product during medium mode to raise the temp 10F and cause excessive back burner temperature?

I was 'luckily' on site last night to witness this event. The system was observed to be in BB mode with all lights flashing and the lower auger pushing the product away from the feed chute. I could not tell what temp the water was at as the controls were inoperable. I was a little concerned what to do? Should I shut the unit down or leave it run? I decided to open the door and brush the product down from the aerator into the ash chamber. A couple of moments later the system kicked into medium mode and started feeding product again. Just bizarre how this thing behaves! The set point temp is at 175F and at the time I think the water temp was at 162f. Anyway is the consensus the medium setting is set too high?

Keep in mind this unit heats 14,000 ft2 building servicing 18 families. I am trying to determine if it worth keeping going. In July I burned about 47 bags of wood pellets $235. I certainly do not want another back burn and toast my second furnace..... I expect to burn close to 60 ton of product this heating season. As mentioned I missed last heating season as my furnace had melted. I am quite concerned this could occur again.

Everyone's comments are appreciated. Thanks
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T_Hartigan
Regular Burner
Regular Burner


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 277
Location: N.W. OHIO

PostPosted:Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:23 am    Post subject Reply with quoteFind all posts by T_Hartigan

235$ for 18 families with hot water doesn't sound to bad.
I think you need to understand if the snap switch on the lower auger is really getting hot or malfunctioning.
Decreasing Med may not help. If it really is back burn may need to increase idle.

A call to c.b. may be needed.
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100% corn first 2 years.
3rd year, Corn, Acorns, 1 ton wood pellets.
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jdeere5220
Serious Burner
Serious Burner


Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 730
Location: Michigan

PostPosted:Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:45 am    Post subject Reply with quoteFind all posts by jdeere5220

pancura wrote:
I would have thought the unit would just go out if the demand is not high enough and I would have expected to see more propane usage to re-ignite the fire when a demand is present.


Yes, you are correct, that's exactly what should happen.

pancura wrote:
Now I cut back my low rates but I still may have my medium rate too high. This may cause too much product to be feed into the burn chamber thus causing the BB warning. What do you think?


It's not your settings. Messing up your settings might cause an overtemp or inefficient operation. They don't cause a back-burn.

I think something sounds really messed up. I've been running my system for two years, and have never, ever, not once had a BB warning. This happening on a regular basis is really disturbing. If the unit doesn't need to feed fuel because there is no demand, it should not back burn it should just go out, like you said.

Quote:
This still does not make sense really. The only reason the system would be in medium mode if there is heat demand, so it should cut out 10F lower than the set point. Do we think its possible to add enough product during medium mode to raise the temp 10F and cause excessive back burner temperature?


Correct on why it goes into medium mode, there must be some demand. My unit will switch to medium every 20 minutes or so just from leakage off my water lines, even if my furnance and DHW don't need any heat.

You shouldn't EVER have a back-burn problem when the system is working in medium mode. It should only be possible with the unit is IDLE, the auger is turning so slowly that it's possible the fire will burn back along the auger.

Are you saying that your back-burn happens while the unit is running in Medum mode? If that's the case then something is really wrong. If the unit is running in Medium mode, it should be feeding fuel into the burn chamber at a much faster rate than it could possibly back-burn along the auger.

I wonder if your exhaust stack is plugged, and you are blowing your hot combustion air back along the feed auger instead of out the exhaust stack?? Please check this right away. Also when you see this BB flashing, please look and see if fire is really travelling up the auger or if the sensor is just bad and everything is actually fine.

Quote:
I was 'luckily' on site last night to witness this event. The system was observed to be in BB mode with all lights flashing and the lower auger pushing the product away from the feed chute. I could not tell what temp the water was at as the controls were inoperable. I was a little concerned what to do? Should I shut the unit down or leave it run?


Don't shut the unit down!! That will prevent it from protecting itself. You could unplug the upper-auger to prevent any more fuel from feeding in, and you could put the unit into clean-out mode. Actually, my manual says the unit automatically goes into clean-out mode when there is a back-burn, exactly to empty the auger of fuel and prevent a melt-down.

You need to figure out why you are getting this warning. Is the fire really travelling back along the lower auger? Is the sensor bad? Is your HX and/or transition area or chimney plugged up?

Quote:
Anyway is the consensus the medium setting is set too high?


Your settings are not causing this problem. If your system is working right it really doesn't matter what your settings are, you would not be getting a back-burn like this.

Quote:
I am quite concerned this could occur again.


I am concerned for you as well!!
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Maxim M250 outdoor corn/pellet burner
Old Beat-up Gravity Box
I support Global Warming
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pancura
Learner Burner


Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 34
Location: halifax

PostPosted:Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:30 pm    Post subject Reply with quoteFind all posts by pancura

I did not notice what state the furnace was in before we noticed it in BB mode. I have to assume it was in idle or low mode. The system was in clean out mode, so the bottom auger was running. The upper auger was not feeding the chamber. I did notice a large volume of pellets around the aerator. This is the product I moved into the ash chamber. After a moment or so after I cleaned the product from around the aerator, the system kicked into medium mode, fan kicked in and auger started feeding system with pellets again. Watched it for 15 minutes or so and it seemed to be working as expected again.

I will check the exhaust stack.

Agreed, I have to identify why this is occurring. I sent my distributor a note basically telling hime the same thing. If I dont get anywhere Ill have to call CB directly. In the past they have not responded to me directly only through my local rep.

Any suggestions on how to tell if the fire is spreading up the lower auger?

The other problem is I am not on site and it only occurs randomly. I cant tell when this will happen, or how often it is happening.

Thanks
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jdeere5220
Serious Burner
Serious Burner


Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 730
Location: Michigan

PostPosted:Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:10 pm    Post subject Reply with quoteFind all posts by jdeere5220

pancura wrote:
I have to assume it was in idle or low mode. The system was in clean out mode, so the bottom auger was running.


Well that sounds like it was doing what it's supposed to do, it went into self-preservation mode and started emptying out the lower auger.

I wonder if your pellets are somehow more flammable than most, and encourage the fire to burn back?

CB needs to build a drop zone into this unit so that this can't happen. There should be a break between the burning pellets and the pellets in the feed tube.
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Old Beat-up Gravity Box
I support Global Warming
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T_Hartigan
Regular Burner
Regular Burner


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 277
Location: N.W. OHIO

PostPosted:Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:15 pm    Post subject Reply with quoteFind all posts by T_Hartigan

I've only run a few bags of pellets. I did notice that the fire would idle just at the beginning of the stirrer almost in the auger if it idled for long periods of time. I never saw a b.b. talarm though.

If you have a temp gun shoot the auger during normal operation by the snap switch and see how hot it is. Do the same if you are around during the alarm.

Maybe during these warm months it is running close to alarm or the snap switch is out of calibration.
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100% corn first 2 years.
3rd year, Corn, Acorns, 1 ton wood pellets.
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