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mddorogi
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Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 1115
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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 Posted:Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:49 pm Post subject |
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| Quote: | Terrific, great, brilliant, awesome. Knock yourself out my friend. What the heck is stopping you?
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Many of us are working on it. But you know, any time there is something new out there, entrenched interests fight to maintain the status quo. Personally, I think that is one of the main reasons there is such a vocal "movement" against things like solar, wind, renewable energy, being environmentally conscious, etc. It threatens the largest industry on the face of the planet, the energy industry. They will fight tooth and nail to discredit and discourage any ideas that threaten their dominance - it is only natural to expect that, after all.
Follow the money.
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jdeere5220
Serious Burner
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 730
Location: Michigan
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| Posted:Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:46 pm Post subject |
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The last two stories I've seen about anyone trying to stop a windmill, both times it was the same environmentalists who claim to want to get us off burning fossil fuel. This happened in New Hampshire and in California, they want wind turbines but apparently they can't stand to look at them.
I don't think the oil companies give a darn if you want to go build yourself a windmill.
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Maxim M250 outdoor corn/pellet burner
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tallcorn
Super Burner
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 9541
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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| Posted:Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:20 pm Post subject |
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I think windmills are beautiful. Must be some Dutch genes. Old Jan Joosten Van Meteren kicking in. 
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Countryside 3500P (pedestal version) used 8-9 yrs, 24/7 during days requiring heat. All original motors. Burns moldy corn, and pellets equally well. Burn it if you got it.
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mddorogi
Super Burner
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 1115
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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| Posted:Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:22 pm Post subject |
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| Quote: | The last two stories I've seen about anyone trying to stop a windmill, both times it was the same environmentalists who claim to want to get us off burning fossil fuel. This happened in New Hampshire and in California, they want wind turbines but apparently they can't stand to look at them.
I don't think the oil companies give a darn if you want to go build yourself a windmill.
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It happens all over. The response to wind turbines seems to be one of those ingrained things: some people just hate the way they look, and some people think they are elegant. Ideally, those who favor wind would not complain if one went up next to them, but this is not an ideal world, and people will be people. Just because you "approve" of burning coal or oil, doesn't require that you would approve of a strip mine going in next to your house. Ditto for wind.
Personally, (surprise!) I think those big turbines look awfully cool, amazing technological work.
| Quote: | | Ummm... I think that's exactly what the global warming proponets are saying. They are saying that the correlation of rising CO2 and risisng temps somehow proves that rising CO2 is causing the rising temp. That's junk science. Correlation does not establish cause and effect. |
I don't think any of the scientists involved in this would say that. The majority of things said in the popular press are inaccurate, misleading, or meant to create hype. It is obvious (it should be anyway) that correlation does not establish cause and effect. But, predictions arising from a good physical understanding of a system, that are then supported by observations, form the basis of scientific theories, and it sure seems that "global warming" or whatever you prefer to call it is on solid ground in that regard. That is, you can complain about politicians and money trails and Al Gore's house all you want, but the physics could care less about that. The physics also doesn't care if we think it's too complicated to understand or model.
Note that since correlation does not prove cause and effect, absence of correlation does not disprove cause and effect. So, arguments along the lines of "recent cooling trends disprove global warming" are DOA.
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drizler
Regular Burner
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 437
Location: CHAZY, NY
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| Posted:Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject |
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| tallcorn wrote: | | I think windmills are beautiful. Must be some Dutch genes. Old Jan Joosten Van Meteren kicking in. |
Tall, you shure there isn't any ropey additive in those brownies you are eating?  We have them around here now and I can assure you the NY skyline of lake Champlain AINT PRETTIER for their being there. Go out on the lake and look west and it looks like a scene from "War of the Worlds". After a while you don't much notice them though just like like losing a foot you get used to it. Another thing you can be assured of is that while the $$$$ are flowing into some fatcats pockets our lofty electric rates WON"T be going down. We had one go out of control a few days ago in high winds. I haven't seen the pix but from what I hear there is nothing left. At least I can't see them from my place thanks to the trees. |
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tallcorn
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Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 9541
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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| Posted:Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:08 pm Post subject |
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Coal plant steam turbines go out of control too. My uncle told me the governor went out on the generator turbine where he worked and the drive shaft went 6 floors up through the roof.
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Countryside 3500P (pedestal version) used 8-9 yrs, 24/7 during days requiring heat. All original motors. Burns moldy corn, and pellets equally well. Burn it if you got it.
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sting
Super Burner
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 4120
Location: In my own world - its ok - They know me here - I play with Fire and Water
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| Posted:Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:17 am Post subject |
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just a few miles from me!
they are mesmerizing
2020 Washington, DC AP
Wind Farm opponents staged a massive demonstration today, with scientific evidence that the new National Wind Farms will suck up all the Earth's wind and cause the planet to be stuck in permanent doldrums. With the new laws mandating the destruction of all energy draining clothes dryers just completed, Alleged Gorey, a spokesman for Stop The Everything Program Or Feel Fear (STEPOFF) stated, "If we don't stop these terrible, terrible wind farms, no one will be able to dry their clothes worldwide. People will have to walk around naked and they might catch a cold. We have a document here signed by every scientist on Earth proving our theory. There is total consensus. We urge everyone to apply for a permit to write their electronic representative before it's too late!"
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tallcorn
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Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 9541
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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| Posted:Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:21 am Post subject |
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Sting, what's scary is there are people that think that.
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Countryside 3500P (pedestal version) used 8-9 yrs, 24/7 during days requiring heat. All original motors. Burns moldy corn, and pellets equally well. Burn it if you got it.
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burnsalot
Serious Burner
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 972
Location: VA
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| Posted:Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:44 am Post subject |
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As we all know, leaves wiggling on trees causes wind. If we would just plant a wind mill beside every tree our problem would be solved
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jdeere5220
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Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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Location: Michigan
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| Posted:Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:50 pm Post subject |
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Except for two relatively brief interglacial episodes, one peaking about 125,000 years ago (Eemian Interglacial), and the other beginning about 18,000 years ago (Present Interglacial), the Earth has been under siege of ice for the last 160,000 years.
Earth Temps Over Last 160,000 Years
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mddorogi
Super Burner
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 1115
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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| Posted:Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:44 pm Post subject |
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| Quote: | | Except for two relatively brief interglacial episodes, one peaking about 125,000 years ago (Eemian Interglacial), and the other beginning about 18,000 years ago (Present Interglacial), the Earth has been under siege of ice for the last 160,000 years. |
Huh? You mean that there have been ice ages? Is there something new here? We've been through Milankovitch cycles and the history of ice ages before. We are still under that seige, by the way, the next ice age will come, regardless of whether we want it to or not.
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jdeere5220
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Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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Location: Michigan
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| Posted:Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject |
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Sorry, I should have clarified, this was a reply to Occam. On page one he informed me I needed a reference for my statement that most of the time the earth is a big icecube. So I found one and posted it.
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Occam
Super Burner
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 1441
Location: Toledo
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| Posted:Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:50 pm Post subject |
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| jdeere5220 wrote: | | Sorry, I should have clarified, this was a reply to Occam. On page one he informed me I needed a reference for my statement that most of the time the earth is a big icecube. So I found one and posted it. |
To be more precise you said this:
| jdeere5220 wrote: | ... considering the earth has been a big ball of ice for roughly 99% of it's existence.
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Your charts don't show earth is an "icecube" or a "big ball of ice" at any time let alone 99% of its existence: just because Canada is under a glacier doesn't mean Florida isn't temperate. In fact during the last iceage Florida had savanna-like conditions that supported a diverse animal and plant life including mastodons and saber-toothed cats. And your chart doesn't even span 1% of the time of earth's existence. All your chart shows is recent glaciation periods which are hardly news or controversial even in this forum.
Last edited by Occam on Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:04 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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bluewolf
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Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 1748
Location: Upper MI (Yah, I'm a Yooper. eh?)
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| Posted:Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:53 pm Post subject |
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| burnsalot wrote: | | As we all know, leaves wiggling on trees causes wind. If we would just plant a wind mill beside every tree our problem would be solved |
I thought my chili caused the wind? 
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burnsalot
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Joined: 29 May 2006
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Location: VA
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| Posted:Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:13 pm Post subject |
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| bluewolf wrote: | | burnsalot wrote: | | As we all know, leaves wiggling on trees causes wind. If we would just plant a wind mill beside every tree our problem would be solved |
I thought my chili caused the wind? |
I think if you eat chili you "break wind". Don't want any broken wind around a wind mill. 
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